| Interview with Ole (continue) art4d:So you mean the content of each individual work will be concerned as well with how it's installed and used in different places? Ole: Yes, absolutely. For me, it becomes more interesting to try and organize the show rather than judge it. The position of choosing artworks, or being in a moral or dangerously colonial position of having to say, this is good, this is bad, is not the most interesting, or productive, question. But I think what we could do is work out a system of how contributions relate to each other and how relationships develop a critical dialogue to the pieces themselves, or the entire content of the show, rather than judging each individual thing on whether it's good enough or not. So we're trying to expand the show massively in Bangkok with local projects involving architects and artists. art4d: So Asian artists will install the content of Asian culture within an Asian context, but with a Western framework. Ole: I think that's precisely what we're trying to do. So what we could do is hand over pieces to local architects or groups of students who would then connect them to their local environment. They could install them in galleries or the city spaces themselves. So what we might try to do is keep the overview and make sure all these singular attempts will work together with the events of 'Cities on the Move'. art4d: Will the content of the exhibition be coherent with the previous one? Ole:Yes, I think the content, in some sense, will be relatively coherent, at least through the people involved. Some of them might actually contribute some new pieces to this show. And certain projects may, in some way, reappear in the Bangkok version. So there is a tradition of the show carried over here, but I think this tradition will be combined with a local specificity. And we will try to involve newspapers, magazines, eventually TV, and posters and billboards in the city, together with projections. So a whole bunch of mass-communication tools which have a very strong presence in the daily life of Bangkok people will also be used. art4d: But the level of understanding among the general public is very different here from Europe. Are you expecting some kind of particular response from local people? Ole: A: I think there might be a very direct way that some of the pieces might work in this context. And it could be very interesting to show architectural projects not as they were shown in the previous versions with a plan and an architectural model inside the gallery. So this could mean showing the building in almost real scale on a billboard within the urban context it was designed for. People passing by could have some sense of what the project means in spatial terms for a city. Or in a completely different example, the work of Lin Yee Lin, and his performance of building the wall. He did that in an actual public space, carrying stones across a street and building a wall around himself. Something like this happening in a public place and completely disrupting the flow by carrying out this meticulous piece of work and maybe blocking off the sidewalk, or part of a public space. So things like this function in a very primary way of being understood. art4d: So the way the exhibition is installed in the city becomes the content. Ole: Yeah, I think so. And again, we want to establish a dialogue between the structure of the city and the structure of the exhibition. art4d: How about working with Rem? Ole: It's an often-asked question in some sense. On one hand, these mysteries are not such mysteries in the end. I've been working with Rem since '95 and we now have more a friendship position where we independently get together for projects like 'Cities on the Move' in London, and simultaneously we were involved with the selection process for master-planner for the Southbank. So these were projects we carried out on restaurant tables. art4d: What are your impressions of him? Ole: I think it's an incredible cultural awareness he has, which attracted me enormously to him. The knowledge which he is able to relate on very concrete, but also on a very abstract, level on each operation he is undertaking. And within this, the merging of a critical dialogue that is more critical than the critical dialogue in classic terms because it clearly tries to transgress these questions of morality and the whole ethical package assigned to our profession. Within this is, for me, a very productive and stimulating way of working. art4d: He is very clever. We heard a rumor that he was on drugs. (Laughter) Ole: This is the other thing, if you reach a certain level of activity, I don't think you need drugs anymore. I just think the body is able to produce drugs to keep you up and going. It's a similar thing with Hans Ulrich, where he might sleep a maximum of two nights in a week. However within the Western context, Rem is a pop star right now. art4d: But that's the bad part of the London version, because in some of the media, the name of Rem Koolhaas completely superseded the 'Cities on the Move' exhibition. Ole: Yeah, totally. But this was not something Rem wanted. Never, ever. And at a certain point this becomes very unproductive. Because the agreement we had was that Rem would design the show almost on an informal basis. And then his name got abused by the media attention and put before Hans Ulrich and Handra, which is completely wrong in this context, because it's still their show. Even here, it's the heritage of their show. This shows very well the level of pop-star-oriented culture, and architecture has entered an unproductive period within a very short history in pop culture. And Rem is very little interested in this pop-star culture. With him it's the work that's important. So these problems exist in the public, but not with the work. art4d: Is he only interested in architecture? Ole: Quite the opposite really. He was a journalist and a filmmaker/scriptwriter before he doing architecture, and this is totally essential for the way in which he thinks of architectural context and content. art4d: His architecture seems to go beyond architecture and really create a sense of wholeness by incorporating so many different elements like film, drama, science, whatever. Ole: Maybe in the end this is one thing that's very nice about architecture. Apart from all the heavy stuff we have to deal with, and the moral tradition, that it's able to provide some structure of thinking that's applicable to so many different things. art4d: That's one thing we have to change - the view that architecture is a single discipline. Ole: Yes, there are many other elements like time, which will play a role in the structure of this show in Bangkok. And this show may create some other connections that will outlive the show and will establish certain connections, networks and collaborations that will last longer and be much more fruitful than the actual result of the show. art4d: Do you have any other expectations for the show here? Ole:Expect the unexpected. I think it's difficult to draw conclusions here. art4d: That's my theory: to never draw conclusions. Ole: A: Yes, I think in architecture, we get so caught up in drawing conclusions and trying to find solutions. back to the first page of the interview  This interview was published in art4d issue#53, "BANGKOK ON THE MOVE." |
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